I would like to open up discussion about the latest phenomenon, IMVU. For those of you who don't know, its similar to Second Life however it seems to be targeting young people. For young people who often spend a lot of time in online communities, playing online games, and instant messaging, IMVU opens a door to a whole new experience.
I am hoping to hear from IMVU users about their experiences, good or bad. I hope other people wade into this discussion as well because I think IMVU will become very popular.
Thanks
Detective Randy Wickins
Alberta Integrated Child Exploitation Team
Alberta, Canada
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Detective Randy Wickins
Edmonton Police Service
Alberta Integrated Child Exploitation Team
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LordSoulFire
Posts:
111
From:
Kansas
Registered:
1/4/08
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(428 of 473)
Apr 10, 2010 12:21 PM
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I learned about 420 because of the younger peers around me at times, and its just another one of those things. There's far worse UFI content in IMVU, that's just the top of the cake. IMVU however has been fully aware of " 420 " since 2007 when it was mentioned to them. They've merely chosen to look the other way.
LordSoulFire
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Breyna
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18
From:
east cleveland
Registered:
3/22/08
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(427 of 473)
Apr 10, 2010 12:10 PM
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Whats really messed up is that I would have had no idea what 420 was if I had not looked up after reading your post. I never was one to keep up with the pop culture of my peers and as I get older I'm even less inclined to keep up with my peers or the younger crowd. So if i would have come across these items I would have thought nothing of em. The funny thing is (well at least to me) with IMVU handing out predits to those that do PR I bet it's mostly younger people doing the voteing now days. So that means they know what 420 is and they are gonna pass it banking on the fact that IMVU dosent know what it is and if the item gets flagged IMVU is not going to research what it is and the flag will be over turned and the product left in the catalog.
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Arisztid
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34
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1/5/08
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(426 of 473)
Apr 10, 2010 2:41 AM
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Your posts combined with mine should send a loud warning call to anyone wanting to get into this.
The song remains the same.
2007 for our battles, same stuff different day today. Oh and with added scams like premium names. Oh and things like the items deemed UFI snuck in and sold unnoticed to teens.
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LordSoulFire
Posts:
111
From:
Kansas
Registered:
1/4/08
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(425 of 473)
Apr 10, 2010 2:13 AM
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Thank you Aris for your comments... and I certainly don't meant to take away from your current posts regarding IMVU's issues with kicking up the same old news. 2007 was a horrible year for everyone at IMVU, certainly not just myself. Many people fought the good fight and stood up for not just adult rights but the rights of teenagers as well - albeit in a round-about way at times.
One thing I think should be elaborated upon is some of the issues that still exists today... three years after the call to arms was sounded. There's still questionable content in the hands of minors - content that IMVU has chosen to ignore at best; at best they've put it back on its community to police in a convoluted fashion.
We can talk all day long about what IMVU did to us adults, our content, our money, and how they treated us. We can boycott, we can stop using their services, we can limit our use... ultimately we have a choice and a voice. Teenagers on the other hand don't have a paddle let alone a boat. Questionable content is still there, years after we brought it up. IMVU still has done nothing pro-actively to attend it. Instead it has continued its strategy of holding something shiny in its left hand to distract everyone from what its hiding behind its back in its right hand.
Teenagers certainly aren't going to police their own content, even if some did they're going to be a very small faction. The majority of developers aren't going to police it because it cuts into their profits. They're a biased faction from the get go. Case in point..
Search " 420 " in the IMVU catalog and tell me what you find. You'll find questionable content that even if its legalized, it'll never be legalized for minors, and it will certainly " not " fall into the General, Mature, or AP content... it falls into the UFI category if I remember the Virtual Goods Content Policy we drafted, correctly.
Yet there it is. Waiting for someone to flag it for violation... and while its waiting it may as well find itself into the hands of teenagers willing to spend the credits to buy it. Glorified and made available because IMVU refuses to be proactive and put a stop to UFI content from the get go by not allowing all items to be checked before entering the catalog. That would require more manpower, more wages, more income lost, and more importantly a loud acceptance that they are after all responsible for the content held upon their servers.
My personal favorite was one " 420 " item being sold that was sold by a Developer with over 500 items to their developer belt... Peer review indeed!
Its time to get real, it's time to get honest.. It's time to get real honest about IMVU, its behavior, and the behavior of the developers who promote this kind of mindless content to children.
LordSoulFire
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Arisztid
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34
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1/5/08
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(424 of 473)
Apr 10, 2010 1:05 AM
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I just wished to comment on LordSoulFire's message.
He stated the past. I was part of it as anyone who has read these forums knows. I was on the ill fated APC and fought along LordSoulFire in the AP battle, then in a few battles after that.
I elaborated in my last post (the one before LordSoulFire's post) how IMVU has gotten worse as far as customer service, scr*wing people over, none of the issues from 2007 are resolved, new scams, what happens if you dare to protest, etc.
I second LordSoulFire's suggestion here, and I quote:
"If you're an adult, run from IMVU. If you're a teenager, run from IMVU. As soon as all the adults are dried up and used to the point where they have nothing else to give or to take from IMVU will toss them out and turn on its teenagers. IMVU is a lose-lose situation for everyone."
Like LordSoulFire, I do not utilize SL to the full extent as an adult often, but I enjoy the option of doing so and I like the fact that I can go to mature sims and do fully mature things when I want.
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LordSoulFire
Posts:
111
From:
Kansas
Registered:
1/4/08
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(423 of 473)
Apr 9, 2010 3:40 PM
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What I truly appreciate about IMVU is how far it will go to protect itself, its income, and its supporters. As long as you're willing to trade everything you believe in for popularity and recognition.. IMVU will welcome you with a smile.
Lets face it though, I'm biased. I was one of those who screamed the battle cry and stood along side of many of the people still commenting here in 2007. I served on the APC and watched it become nothing more than a scapegoat for IMVU. I also was one of the first people to stand up to trolls, cheerleaders, and idiots - all who were hell bent on supporting IMVU until supporting IMVU cost them too much in popularity, attention, and profit.
The irony is that by calling out moderators as being unethical, unprofessional, and bought and paid for - I was labeled a troll and issued a permanent ban from the IMVU forums. This doesn't bother me except that I have to use a hidden account to check on any updates pertaining to my products on the forums. How quaint.
Of course this was after a " long " criminal history of facing off trolls and telling people what I thought and not holding their e-feelings while doing it.
My own experience with IMVU is telling. I went from a hardcore supporter to a deflector. I won't recommend *anyone* to IMVU anymore and I cross my fingers hoping that all the trolls, instigators, cheerleaders, and jackboots stay there and continue to abuse the rights of adults all in the name of protecting the children. At least they won't be ( for now ) affecting my rights to be an adult elsewhere.
The sad part is that I rarely if ever exercise those rights to be an adult and to behave as one... I just love the option of being able to do so.
If you're an adult, run from IMVU. If you're a teenager, run from IMVU. As soon as all the adults are dried up and used to the point where they have nothing else to give or to take from IMVU will toss them out and turn on its teenagers. IMVU is a lose-lose situation for everyone.
LordSoulFire
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Arisztid
Posts:
34
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1/5/08
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(422 of 473)
Mar 15, 2010 4:14 PM
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Changing things at IMVU? That is impossible. IMVU is all about the bottom line: money. Now, they are a business and I have no problem with businesses being about the money... that is why someone runs a business. I support the rights of a business to make money rather than condemn like many do today. However, I do have a problem with unscrupulous business practices in order to get it. "Corrupt" and "unscrupulous" fit IMVUs business practices to a "T."
Remember the AP boycott that IMVU stomped hard on because it was working and, due to that, IMVU had to squash it flat by any means possible? The forum bannings escalated, new rules being written daily to squelch it, such as the word "boycott" becoming a warnable to bannable offense, actually deleting accounts of the main people involved in the boycott, issuing threatening PMs and private homepage messages, devs devving privileges were revoked, and more.
That is what will happen again if any protest starts to work. IMVU is going to do what IMVU wants no matter what the customers do and IMVU has no compulsion against using the vilest methods possible to squelch opposition.
The same stuff we complained about and fought to fix in 2007 are still going on, still being fought over. The only exception to this is I have not seen the AP battle going on. It occasionally is mentioned that there is no real adult content but quickly dropped.
However, members are still hollering about having to pay "protection money" via the VIP pass to block unwanted actions just like we did in 2007.
I see that customer service has gotten worse, basically the only way to get anything other than a form letter that does not address your issue, if that, is to pay for a VIP pass. People talk about open tickets that have not been addressed even with a form letter for months to, I think, half a year. Even the customer service for VIPs is, from what I read, not the best. However, that is the only way to get it at all.
The VIP pass is blatantly only a money making venture and I read that the only reason the majority of people get it is to block the attacks and get customer service. Should people have to pay to have their help tickets answered and keep from being cyber attacked in a chat client? I say no. IMVU says "bring on the cash!"
IMVU has been hollering for years that they are not a dating site. However, now one of the tabs on the community section is to an actual dating site and IMVU pays people with credits to join. I have no doubt whatsoever that the dating site is paying IMVU for each new member.
They have "premium names" that, when this was first announced, I predicted that eventually all names that used to be obtainable from long dead guest accounts via the name change token, would become "premium" if someone asked for them.
IMVU has shown that its business practices have not changed in the years I have been gone.
I see people talking about protesting this, boycotting that. I just read knowing that they do not have a chance. The only effective boycott that I know of (the one I mentioned above) resulted in the extreme actions I described. There is no action members can take to change anything about IMVU. There was at least one class action lawsuit that I know about back in 2007... obviously nothing came of it.
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IMVUexile
Posts:
31
Registered:
1/4/08
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(421 of 473)
Mar 15, 2010 12:32 PM
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I do agree, many people have tried to change things at IMVU, and have been beaten down over it. Soulfire, as well as myself and a few others that post on here, were once part of an IMVU sanctioned group called the APC. where we debated what was and wasn't adult content. We lost on many points for the simple fact that, IMVU refused to listen to the things we were saying, and chose to do their own thing regradless of what we said. In fact, many times contrary to what we said. They don't really care about either adults or children there. ALL they care about is MONEy. Plain and simple. all you have to do is look in the music catalog to see that, plain as day, there are artists there with songs and cover art that I myself, as a fully knowledgeable consenting adult, find highly distasteful. And I am by no means a prude of any make or sort. But these are allowed in the general access part of the iMVU catalog simply because they create revenue for the site. nothing more, nothing less.
As for baby diapers and pacifiers, Well, how can you pretend to be baby new year without a diaper, or even be a bad baby with a rotten diaper for a joke. Just because it CAN be used for certain Rp by consenting adults, does not mean that that is the purpose for which it was MADE. I also remember the pacifier craze of a few years ago. I tried to get my neices to stop using them, because it just looked completely tacky, but then again, I think back to the 80's when I was a vally girl. and seriously had to stop complaining lest I look like a complete hipocrite.
complainging about iMVU in their own forums is a hit or miss thing. I've been lucky so far, but mostly, I send private messages to concerned people with helpful hints and links and things, to keep from getting banned. i can do more good that way.
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LordSoulFire
Posts:
111
From:
Kansas
Registered:
1/4/08
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(420 of 473)
Mar 14, 2010 4:42 PM
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DevouredSpirit... I truly wish that the best advice I have wasn't " walk away ". Unfortunately, IMVU is never going to change. You can fight the good fight just as many of us did during the Great Castration and following atrocities but at the end of the day IMVU does what IMVU chooses to do. It amazes me that they're still in business.. but as long as they have teenagers to target, sponsors to milk, and adults to fool they'll remain so.
Pallidheart.. IMVU isn't an adult site. Its a site that targets children and attempts to pull the wool over adults in order to keep their business going. So far, its working.
As far as your comment regarding consenting adults role-playing infants/children/etc as some sort of " sick sexual relief " , and lumping these people in with predators is entirely off-base. You may not approve of adults doing as adults choose to do, but you don't have to look at it, or go looking for it. Adults enjoying their fantasies/reliefs with other consenting adults falls under their prerogative and it doesn't make any adult a predator for doing so, regardless of your close-minded beliefs.
I admire people stepping up to address issues that may lead to exploited children, but there are far greater things to worry about on IMVU than paraphilic infantilism to battle. While you're joining together to fight what consenting adults do on IMVU.. there's content completely unsuitable for minors in the catalog IMVU refuses to censor itself. I'd be far more disturbed by the marijuana and violence than diapers and pacifiers.
Food for thought... IMVU hasn't changed since 2007. Three years later they are still abusing their customers, censoring their customers, and cracking the whip. You either fall in line and behave like a good little boy or girl.. or you will face the wrath of its bought and paid for forum moderators. You have but a few recourse.. one is to leave, one is to speak out and the other is to fall in line and go about your business. The latter will allow you to continue to use their full service in peace... the other two combined will allow you to speak up and warn others from investing in IMVU at all.
LordSoulFire
P.S. Any chance I get I warn people away from IMVU these days.. in comparison to when I started when I recruited 50+ people to it. IMVU lost more than just myself as a full time user and investor when I left.
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Pallidheart
Posts:
1
From:
Australia
Registered:
3/14/10
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(419 of 473)
Mar 14, 2010 5:07 AM
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G-Day .......well i personaly think imvu are a huge joke ....and i have been a member of the vertual world imvu for 4 years just like Miss Devouredspirit :P now these moderaters or who ever is in charge of this sight (imvu) like to tell ther rest of us about the TOS [[Terms Of Service]] when thay themselves violate it on a daily basis its laughable really that these people can spout off to the rest of us because thay have the power to block.... ban or whatever i am a big believer of practise what you preach and that whats good for the goose is good for the gander but with IMVU its a case of do as i say and not as i do where and when will thay draw the line and as far as the use of pacifers and diapers ...cribs ect go i am with Devouredspirit i find these items to be in bad taste regardless to them being a GA or none GA item this is a adult site or so i thought and as a adult I seriously don't think there really is a good reason for them being on the site ...i have heard plenty excuses such as rp blah blah ....but just for a second see things from my angle .......close your eyes and tell me what the first thought comes to mind when thinking of a pacifier or diaper............i have seen these things being used where pple where "roleplaying" infants and using these thing to get some form of sick sexual relief it made my stomach turn ........imvu can be a good place but we all need to remember this is the internet and a open play ground for predators there are lot of things IMVu should do but wont why???? simply because thay are making stupid amounts of money and it wont be untill thay are faced with the prospect of losing a heap a money will thay change anything ..... for the perants out there that care please do not let your teen on the site (IMVU) it really is not a place for children under the age of 18or better yet take a look at this site yourself you will soon see its not for children ...........WELL THANKS FOR LETTING ME HAVE MY SPOUT OUT  CHEERS |
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Devouredspirit
Posts:
3
From:
Australia
Registered:
3/14/10
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(418 of 473)
Mar 14, 2010 4:29 AM
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i get what your saying i really do..its a little sad though to think the best advice is to walk away..dont get me wrong i dont lose sleep over this issue i just find it rediculous that the arguement is so one sided..i cant change the world but if i can make at least one person think twice about things then i have left a footprint no matter how insignificant it may be..thanks for the reply ... |
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LordSoulFire
Posts:
111
From:
Kansas
Registered:
1/4/08
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(417 of 473)
Mar 14, 2010 4:22 AM
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Here's the thing.....
The infant items by and of themselves are not Access Pass Products.. they're General Audience. There's absolutely nothing " adult " about diapers and pacifiers or cribs or anything else. Now, can adults use these items to role-play in a sexual manner? Of course they can. They can also role-play using a kitchen table and a rolling pin. You need to understand that the Virtual Content Policy does not police the *actions* of users.. it merely polices the items themselves. What users do with those items... is on the users. You cannot police what users do with items any more than you can police the thoughts of users regarding those items.
In regards to your ban from the forums. Welcome to the club. The IMVU Forums are not " public " by any means, and you can and will be banned if you do not express your views and opinions exactly how IMVU and its moderators believe you should. I know, its hypocrisy but that's the bottom line. You do not have Freedom Of Speech on the IMVU Forums and thus you can by banned for typing wrong if they so choose to ban you for it. They are not violating their TOS.. you are if you violate their rules for the forums. Its that simple.
Take it from someone who has been where you are now... cut your losses and walk away.
LordSoulFire
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Devouredspirit
Posts:
3
From:
Australia
Registered:
3/14/10
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(416 of 473)
Mar 14, 2010 4:02 AM
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ok well first of all "hello" =)..now im not sure if its the best forum for what i going to say but here goes..Now ive been and active user of imvu for going on 4 years now also an active content creator the site has given me many a pleasure as well as much pain..i have seen many things allot of it not very nice im speaking about some products and their uses..now having expressed my views within the public forums of imvu with little success..my concerns are for the infant products you can now purchase for your avitar not excluded to pacifiers and adult diapers...the are General Audience products which means any user over the age of 13 can purchase..ive experienced these products being used in sexual role play between imvu users..this distressed me to the point that i started an imvu Public Forum debate on the legalities of these items..restricting them to Access Pass holders was one of the solutions that we posted..After searching similar stories on the internet i found that class actions had allready been raised against imvu by other more educated imvu user's..since my run in with IMVU PUBLIC FORUM MODERATORS i have been banned access for any forum within the public access of imvu my account is still active allthough i dont hazard a guess as to how long also a group started by myself and like minded individuals within the walls of IMVU has also been restricted to AP status only and some members removed without our consent..in short im just throwing this out there to see if anyone else has similar experiences with IMVU and the powers that be..its plain they are breaking their own Terms of Service agreement as well as more than a few international laws..all topics discussed in our posts were related to General Audience products and all pictures were taken in General Audience rooms or from the catalogue..if any users here are active on imvu i would like very much to hear your thoughts..feel free to browse the posts withing the group "Sins of IMVU".. http://www.imvu.com/groups/group/The%2BSins%2BOf%2BIMVU/ |
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Sash44
Posts:
2
Registered:
3/6/10
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(415 of 473)
Mar 6, 2010 3:33 AM
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They are very unfair and ban you for no reason! They lie about things you do just to get you banned! They claim you have other accounts which are different people just to have a "case" even it is wrong! They allow CHILD PREDATORS AND PEDOFILES TO BE ON THERE like xxFriend4Lifexx and ban you for reporting him in a chat with a 13 and 15 years old when this man is 57! The government needs to do something against IMVU! They aso need to stop allowing them to ban accounts as we pay money for them and not little either! Alone the AP is $20!!!!
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